And yet in agg frame also points to bahnsens debate with stein as a prime example of van tils negative transcendental method in action, which, frame claims, is against the traditional arguments because they are positive. Nearly every day and some scholars would say with every word we uttermore on this later we. In particular, the debate centers around the laws of logic, which they both declare that they believe. I remember speaking with bahnsen by phone sometime in 1991 about the debate, which had been broadcast fairly recently, but i cannot be more specific about the date and would be grateful to anyone who. Circular sye wrote makes me think of the likes of whateverman saying 47 days ago that he would comment on the bahnsen stein debate, when he finished listening to it. Now by smiths argument, if the only things that exist are those we have sensory perception of, then we must conclude that the laws of logic do not exist and. Transcendental argument for the existence of god wikipedia. Stein, held at the university of california irvine in 1985. Moore, timothy george the revised edition of a theology for the church retains its original structure, organized under these traditional theological categories. Gordon stein was not prepared for the transcendental argument, and it seems like he never heard it before. In fact, in the debate between stein and bahnsen, this was the point that bahnsen got stein on. The story of van tillian presuppositionalism is similar to the confederate army. Gordon stein held at the university of california irvine in hear how hard. Did you know mormonism is a materialistic worldview.
Third round of emails, 62106 with addition of ergun. He articulated a wide range of arguments against the existence of the christian god, whereas bahnsen offered only onethe socalled transcendental argument, which does nothing to further the christian case but instead seeks to undermine all opposing philosophies. This is now considered a classic debate, and one we can all. Doubt and faith ive been thinking about christianity and belief lately. Sep 20, 2015 frame would have to hold that bahnsens argument in the stein debate was an abandonment of van tils apologetic. All individual, downloadable mp3s by bahnsen on apologetics have been moved to the apologetics category. Greg bahnsen clearly wins this debate, and it becomes apparent that dr.
Gary johnson, jill stein fall short of presidential debate. A transcript of the great debate this is a wordforword written transcript of the debate. May 10, 2014 how bahnsen gives away the farm in his debate with gordon stein taking the points i make in my blog entry presuppositionalist pseudolosophy as a point of departure, we now turn to a poignant example in the annals of presuppositionalist debating history which shows how easily apologists succumb to the ignoranceriddled view of knowledge on which. Gordon stein debated this question at the university of this debate has influenced a large number of people. One case see this by considering the following quotation from dr. One of bahnsens most telling point is that by committing himself to naturalism, and refusing to even admit any evidence for. How bahnsen gives away the farm in his debate with gordon stein. Tabash closing remarks i dont have to know how the universe was formed but i do know that it wasn. The debate with stein marked one of the earliest uses of a transcendental argument for the existence of god. Bahnsen and atheist lawyer former aclu edward tabash at the university of california davis, is a great followup to the bahnsenstein debate. The great debate as it has been dubbed is the nowfamous interaction between dr. As bahnsen pointed out, he had no philosophical training. Theres just a material universe, naturalistically explained as the way things happen to be. Debate how an atheist led me from atheism to jesus page 4.
Bahnsen was particularly known for his christian presuppositional apologetics in debates with atheists, presuppositional apologists will frequently ask their debate opponents the foundationsrationale of their various. An atheist and christian can argue all day about whose belief is most reasonable, but as van til and richard pratt pointed out, christianity only makes sense to a christian. Over 75 percent of americans are saying they want an open debate. Bahnsen, with whom i have some very minor nonessential theological disagreements, was brilliant. Greg bahnsen and prominent proponent of atheism gordon stein had a debate at the university of california, irvine regarding the positions of atheism and theism. Stein is, it is doubtful that many atheists will be converted as a result of the discussion. Lectures by greg bahnsen van tilian apologetics worldviews in collision. Apr 11, 2019 the following are some of the notes for a book im writing on the moral argument for the existence of god.
How bahnsen gives away the farm in his debate with gordon. Bahnsen, published originally in the chalcedon report, february 2004, was available here for a while, but that link, as you can see, is no longer good. Pastor paul washer on the puritan hard drive refutations of richard dawkins and evolution free mp3s, free online text, books, magazines, kindle, videos dvds, etc. To be honest, stein was not a strong representative of his position. Cornelius van tils philosophical groundbreaking work in returning to the bible to develop a biblical apologetic method. No, this isnt the revelation of some new theory about the formation of the cosmos or the discovery of a phenomenon that supposedly proves the big. Maxwell sachel max weinberg born april, 1951 is a jewish american drummer and television personality, most widely known as the longtime drummer for bruce springsteens e street band and as the bandleader for conan obrien on late night with conan obrien and the tonight show with conan obrien. D youre the last person to be pointing out where other people didnt followup or answer questions. Which form of apologetics is biblical excellent debate. Dec 07, 2015 talk about greg bahnsen and gordon stein. The fact that so many are here this evening is an indication of some at least some degree of interest audience laughing in the subject matter to be handled. While this may indeed be the assumption between opponents in a debate, bahnsen provides no reason for why this assumption is correct.
The tag aims to show that if the christian god does not exist then there is no explanation for certain nonmaterial features that do exist. A certain factory worker had the responsibility of. Each one is a gem of biblical insight and christian scholarship. In 1985, the christian apologist greg bahnsen and the atheist gordon stein had a debate at the university of california, irvine regarding the positions of atheism and theism. The use of logic or reason is the only valid way to examine. Stein never does account for the transcendence of reason, logic and laws of nature. Stein wanted some other nonmaterial thing that existed and bahnsen said laws of logic. Gordon stein full debate best christian debate of our time. Never since then have we witnessed such a masterful presentation of presuppositional apologetics. Mar 04, 2008 there are a lot of great theismatheism debates out there. If stein does, then, argues bahnsen, he cant actually participate in a logical debate, because they could each declare a convention in which they each win the debate. In the last few years of his life he had really forged some close friendships around the country, and his teaching ministry was at a strong place of impact.
Ever since the bahnsen stein debate, presups think they can repeat bahnsen s arguments and gloriously slaughter the opposition. Stein to the premise he was either avoiding or abusing. I would question whether or not either of your proposed resolutions has a clear defined scope so lets let the debate define the territory and i think everyone will benefit. This debate on the does god exist was held at university of california, irvine on february 11, 1985. The use of logic or reason is the only valid way to examine the truth or falsity of a statement that claims to be factual. Jul 30, 2012 advocates of the presuppositional approach to christian apologetics have long hailed the debate between greg bahnsen the late christian theologian and apologist, noted for his achievements in presuppositional apologetics and development of theonomya view of the law for christians, pictured left and gordon stein the late secularist noted for his links to free inquiry among. New apologetics web series with greg bahnsen, phd answers in. Oct 14, 2010 the impossibility of the contrary see the famous bahnsen stein debate this is just a sample, but you can clearly see that christian faith while originating in gods revelation to his people has confirming evidence and arguments defended by those at the highest levels of academia and held by some of the worlds most respected scholars is many. Recall that bahnsen s response to this objection was that the debate between the christian and the nonchristian assumes that one of the views has to be true.
I have heard from more people about the impact the bahnsenstein debate had on them than any other part of his recorded legacy. For those not familiar with the transcendental argument for the existence of god or greg bahnsen, this should be a good introduction. The good news is that we are well practiced in persuading others. Basically the transcendental argument states that biblical christianity is true. Some basic principles for christian apologetics by gary. Transcripts of the debate are available here to follow with the audio. Bahnsen, would you call god material or immaterial.
How to use the trandscendental argument for the existence of god. Jun 03, 2008 both these men saw the purpose to be closing the blasphemous mouth of the unbeliever, and presuppositionalism certainly does that, see generally the bahnsen v. I dont know how many were christians, but it was evident as the debate progressed that the audience became convinced that bahnsen won the debate. Greg bahnsen versus gordon stein debate, does god exist. Greg bahnsen and gordon stein that occurred back in 1985.
Audio listendownload format of a formal debate between christian greg bahnsen and skeptic gordon stein from the university of california, irvine. Excerpts the lincolndouglas debates are the most famous political debates in american history. Helpful in teaching some basics about other worldviews. Namely, most tag proponents will mention the existence of moral, logical, and scientific laws.
Bahnsen spends most of his rebuttal arguing that the laws of logic are not mere conventions, and that stein cannot make them such. Changing the resolution won t change what arguments. By the way, aid has a running critique of barkers bible misrepresentations and misinterpretations. Bahnsen spends most of his rebuttal arguing that the laws of logic are not mere conventions, and that. Bahnsen use the following argument, the bible says that god exists and the bible is the inspired word of god therefore what it says must be true, therefore god exists. Classes on world religions taught by timothy tennent, all free. I would really like to see that man get taken to the intellectual woodshed. Greg bahnsen became known as the man atheists fear most due to michael martins cancellation of their scheduled debate. Bahnsen uses the transcendental argument for gods existence tag, for which stein has no response. Introductory remarks about the nature of the debate 1. The distinctives of the reformed faith the gospel according to luke.
In chapter three, he states, as a 36year old bahnsen thrilled the religious world with a crushing victory over gordon stein in a public debate he returned to the debate stage many times, overwhelming his foes by sheer force of intellect and strength of his presuppositions, to cement his status as one christianitys best. As in the debate stein kept appealing to the notion that atheist do have morality, science, and logic. Gordon stein at the university of california, irvine, 1985 segment one i. Worldrenowned theoretical physicist stephen hawking has made major news again. In a debate on subjects where there are fundamental disagreements, a number of basic preliminaries must first be established before a meaningful discussion can take place.
Bahnsen and atheist lawyer former aclu edward tabash at the university of california davis, is a great followup to the bahnsen stein debate. Bahnsen september 17, december 11, was an american calvinist the debate with stein marked one of the earliest uses of a transcendental argument for the existence of god tag. Defining terms the argument is for christian theism it is necessary at the outset of our debate to define our terms. This debate on the does god exist was held at university of california, irvine on february 11. The story behind the chilean miners jesus tshirts cnn. Atheism and debate religionwiki fandom powered by wikia. Weinberg grew up in suburban new jersey and began drumming at an early age. The debate can serve to allow both sides to have their chance at defining the terms, that is how it should play out. December 11, 2006 marked the 11th anniversary of the death of dr. Gary johnson and jill stein fail to make cut for first debate. Massive apologetics track christian worldview discipleship. Not only is it a giant pile of presupposition but a long attempt to muddy the waters and say that because some things cant be known. Greg bahnsen was an articulate christian apologist and defender of theonomy, which is the belief that gods law, revealed in both testaments, is the standard of righteousness and justice to which god holds all nations accountable.
Then there was the great debate over the existence of god in 1985. Gordon stein would formally debate pastor and philosopher dr. In 1985 the university of california at irvine hosted a public debate between philosopher greg bahnsen and atheist gordon stein on the topic. Dr bahnsen was truly a gifted man, and it showed here. Bahnsen september 17, 1948 december 11, 1995 was an american calvinist. This set includes 2 mp3s and one transcript pdf remastered audio from the original 1985 recordings the audio is much clearer of this truly classic formal. Gordon stein athiest vs dr greg bahnsen jesus follower.
February 11, 2007 marked the 22nd anniversary of the the great debate. A collection of written remembrances by some who were present at the debate and some who have been impacted by it. Witness again how an atheist fails to wrestle with fundamental philosophical issues. The martinframe debate a written debate between skeptic michael martin and christian john frame about the transcendental argument for the existence of god. Where are they in helping christians combat people like richard dawkins, christopher hitchens, and daniel dennet from a biblical basic belief, as greg bahnsen did with gordon stein. Debate how an atheist led me from atheism to jesus. Ever since the bahnsenstein debate, presups think they can repeat bahnsens arguments and gloriously slaughter the opposition. Bahnsen stein debate tautology wiki fandom powered by wikia.
David bahnsen is the son of the prolific author greg bahnsen. Greg bahnsen vs gordon stein mp3 the domain for truth. Richard howe, discuss apologetic methodology, the bahnsenstein and bahnsensproul debates, calvinism, islam, justification, sola scriptura, roman catholicism, the attributes of god, theology, persecution and much more free video. This highprofile debate showcased leading atheist dr. Brian frantz apologetics 111103 summary of the only true. That is, how does he prove that logic or reason is the only way to prove. Douglas wilson debate mp3 audio douglas wilson debates dan barker on the subject. Jan 08, 20 this is hopelessly circular, but many highlyrespected atheists think in that childlike fashion, as was demonstrated by atheist gordon stein during a live debate, in which he said. Lincoln and douglas were the republican and democratic candidates for the u.710 832 793 1485 949 154 699 1405 1028 821 841 324 1289 359 456 1240 929 1361 1137 1117 1577 242 313 1177 551 1018 1280 627 1144 1224 1483 987 1091